"Virtue is not something simply lacking in the modern world. It is something many in the modern world actually resent." ~Dr. Edward Sri
to raise Christian young men who LIVE the Gospel of Christ is hard in
this fallen world-- so many people want to lead them astray. Not always
on purpose, mind you...but like the quote earlier... virtue is laughed
at, ridiculed and resented. Chastity includes the custody of one's eyes!
We want our young men to respect women, not objectify them - and it is
hard to teach in a culture where half-naked
women walk around EVERYWHERE (including church!), are on billboards, in
stores, on products and on TV & in movies. The abortion on demand/
birth control mentality teaches men to objectify their women, too. It
teaches young men that they can do what they please whenever they want
because *it* can be taken care of. Women become mere objects to be used
for their own pleasure. Sometimes I just hate the world!
My youngest went on a retreat the Diocese puts on every year. Our church youth group took a few people. During a break, a chaperone took teenage girls and a few of the boys to the mall nearby and they went to <ahem> Victoria's Secret. I have already alerted the pastor. This is not appropriate!
I don't think young teenage boys should be exposed to the soft porn in VC. Just my two cents.
Highlights of a convo on FB (the first and second paragraph were a status)- It was such a great conversation, that I wanted to share.
A friend said, "Amen" and I replied: It
is so hard... I tell you... so hard..... there are too many people
willing to lead our kids astray. Adults..... We just have to keep
working and praying. I don't care if the world laughs at me/my family. I
want my boys to turn into men of virtue. I get so depressed thinking
about the progressive agenda.
make sure you don't forget that men objectified women LONG before birth
control. Don't blame the birth control for the attitudes of men.
I know.. but if you read what the Pope's wrote before BC was widely
available-- they predicted everything that is happening now. The birth
control mentality aids men in their objectification of women. It is not
the only reason nor the only way...but is is a HUGE factor in our
current culture crisis.
have been "objects" since the dawn of man. Just do the best you
possibly can, and they'll show you how well you taught them. I see it
in my sons now. Are they saints? Oh, heck no. But.....they know how
to be a "true man" around women.And
in regards to BC aiding men? Ummm, it works both ways. It also allows
women to be "objectified". Please don't lay that much blame on a pill
or the opposite sex. Women play the game too....with or without the
I replied with this link
Church called it-- said that BC would cause higher divorce rates,
infidelity rates, STD rates, so forth and so on... and the statistics
are there to support what the Church predicted. Couples who do not use
contraception have less than a 5% chance of divorce compared to the
average population of over 50%.PS- remember, I am raising boys-so this is written from the perspective of a mother of boys,W. Not saying that BC doesn't cause the same effect for women...This article says less than a 2% divorce rate for couples who do not contracept: http://nosoulleftbehind.wordpress.com/2007/12/28/the-link-between-contraception-and-divorce/
the rampant immorality that has existed since the beginning of time,
I'd hardly say that birth control is to blame, or has even aided in any
decline. What it HAS done is allow, for example, married women to
continue to have relations with their husbands without having to endure
childbirth 10 or 12 times, which was common as recently as 100 years ago
in this country.
Well, K, you are free to disagree Here's another article about the low divorce rates : http://canonlaw.info/a_contraceptionanddivorce.htm
I'm a practicing Catholic, so bringing up having 10 or 12 children
doesn't sway me to your side--I only wish we could have that many
living. We've had 19 pregnancy losses.
rates increased because now, married women who are unhappy, can
actually file for divorce. It's harder to file for divorce when you
can't obtain credit in your own name, can be fired simply for being a
woman, for getting married, or getting pregnant. Of course, divorce is
higher now. That has to do with equal treatment under the law for
women. 100 years ago, women just had to suffer, no matter how many
times their husbands cheated on them, beat them, or came home drunk. As
far as couples who do not use contraception having a lower divorce
rate, I'd say that has more to do with religious convictions against
both. Correlation is not causation.
it's more like we are an instant gratification society-- It has nothing
to do with that. People think they have to be happy 24/7 or something
is wrong-- they take antidepressants and if it isn;t right, you leave to
go find yourself. People live in a disposable society --and not that
So so true
We do live in a society where people tap their feet impatiently in front of the microwave.
enough... none of the couples we've known the last 25 plus years who
use NFP (no contraception) have divorced. We know lots of practicing
Catholics. We know plenty of couples who contracept who have divorced.
Before Chris and I were married, I was in a Bible study group with older
couples who were all practicing Catholics and had never used BC... none
of them were or have gotten divorced. A few spouses have died -- old
age, cancer...... It is pretty amazing.I
know, right?! 3 minutes to make popcorn, seriously!? But we want
INSTANT happiness and we have a society that tells us YOU are more
important than a relationship with your spouse. It tells us your
happiness is more important than temporary pain of working issues out.
pill came out in the mid 30's. In the 40's, divorce rates were at
about 14%. In the 50's, it was about 20% (could've been all of the
women refusing to give up their jobs when the men came home from
WWII....women's lib and all that fun stuff). When we hit the 70's,
divorce rates skyrocketed to the high 40s, low 50s. If anything, I
would explain it as liberalism in general.....a disposable society with
no personal accountability. And feminists ate it up. In short, I blame
my parent's generation....born in the late 40's, early 50's, grew up in
the 60's, early 70's. Also, that is when public schools started to get
taken over by liberals, especially upper academia. It's a vicious
cycle......but not caused by one pill or BC in general. If you look at
in this way, and throw in the feminists, one could probably state that
it's women's fault for the higher divorce rates....not men. Purely
the free love of the 60s was made possible by the pill-- the pill aided
the liberal agenda. Maybe I can get a priest or two to post since they
might be better at explaining?
The pill aided the moral decay of society-- I don't think anyone is
saying it is the ONLY thing. Abortion is one thing... the attack on
traditional marriage, etc, etc....
did it take 40 years for the divorce rates to hit and then plateau at
around 50%? Considering all of the other forms of BC available, logic
would dictate that the divorce rates would keep climbing higher, but
they haven't. ANd it's been 40 years at around that rate. Why didn't
divorce rates spike in the late 30's or early 40's and just keep
climbing? Something else is afoot.
also posted an article where a tribunal (Catholic) looked and found
most couples coming for annulments were using contraception --very few
NFP users ..... The pill came available in 1960, right?What pill came out in the 1930s? http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/2010-05-07-1Apill07_CV_N.htm This is an article from 2010 -- the 50th anniversary of the pill. Up
until the 1930s- all denominations were opposed to artificial birth
control, but Margaret Sanger and her organization changed that.
F wrote: I'll
just place my toe in the turgid waters here.... it all depends on where
one gets their facts. Pattie has shown you where she got hers. Can you
post where you got yours? There were and are many causative factors to
be discussed, but birth control opened Pandora's box even more than the
sliver that showed. We can thank Margaret Sanger for that. She had her
own agenda, and I humbly suggest you look into her motivations. Once
birth control came on the scene, many thought it was a boon to women.
Here's the issue. Using a wrong to right a wrong is still wrong, if you
follow me. Birth control is just that - wrong. Then we have the media.
Think back to the 50s and 60s. Every "perfect" family had two parents,
and two children, one of each. Don't forget the twin beds. That came
from the contraceptive mentality that had been creeping through the back
alleyways since Sanger's day (actually she was still alive then and
going on talk shows). So...everyone either consciously or unconsciously
wants to emulate the "perfect Hollywood family" and doctors began
receiving "incentives" to share with their patients the magic pill that
would ease their worries about family size, finances, etc. Once that
started making the rounds, and the "sexual revolution" got underway with
the beatniks and hippy kids of the 60s, the pill was the perfect
panacea for this "if it feels good do it" subculture. Then, they get
older. They get married (or not). They have kids, but everyone is having
only two (that's what TV tells them), and everyone is on the pill, and
how dare the Church tell them how many kids to have!! Priests aren't
even married, how could they possibly know how hard it is..blah blah
blah! It's disobedience. Pure and simple. We all think we know better
than God. Contracepting couples have a 50% or greater divorce rate,
"Catholic" contracepting couples are commensurate with that level.
Non-contracepting couples, as Pattie has shown, have a much, much lower
divorce rate. Proof's in the pudding, if you ask me. And back to the
original issue - if people would dress modestly, then the inclination to
sin would be much less. Notice I said less, not gone. Men are visual
creatures, where as women are emotive. There's an old saying, "Men give
love to get sex, women give sex to get love." If women want love, they
must take care to not objectify and sexualize themselves to men. Men,
also, must give women respect by guarding their eyes and guarding the
reputation of those women by not giving in to the visual cues they see
everywhere. If I might add an economic note here? We have contracepted
our society into bankrupcy. We have too many retiring workers and have
contracepted away a new crew of workers. We now have an inverted
pyramid, and that is why social security is crumbling. If you have time
or inclination, I suggest you watch Demographic Timebomb and Demographic
Ma wrote: Birth
control is one aspect if you look at the big picture BUT I can tell you
where BC has aided in our downfall. First it has made it easy to forget
that sex is for reproduction. That is it's purpose. The fact that
children came from sex helped people think about who they laid with and
when. Usually with a spouse after marriage. As for women being able to
have relations with their husband, that can still happen without child
birth or BC but it takes communication between man and wife and
commitment of both of them instead of just between a woman and her
doctor. Birth control is responsible for increase in the spread of
promiscuity for the first reason I listed, which also led to the
increase in the spread of disease. The whole "if it feels good do it"
attitude came from the lack of natural consequence of sex and the
sexualization of women has been made more convenient and acceptable due
to that attitude. Women and men are to blame for the attitudes and
actions. Both want the immediate satisfaction of sex now marriage later.
I do not understand how anyone can not see the connection. It is as clear as day.
more thing about the BC used by married women remark - as we all know
it isn't just married women using it so they can have relations with
their husband without worrying about children so that argument holds
very little water anyway even if you take religion out of the equation.
Further the concept of children being a burden to be put off has made the whole concept of abortion easier to swallow.
So to recap. No birth control by itself has not caused the downfall of society BUT it sure has not helped either.
And I didn't even go into the horrible effects it has had and remains to have on women's health
just said everything I wanted to say but couldn't find the words. You
are awesome, Maxine. What we teach our boys about birth control? I ask
them if they want the women they love and marry to have an increased
risk of cancer, blood clots, strokes
and other health issues just so that they can have sex whenever they
want. Hardly seems worth the risk to me-- if you love your wife, why
would you want to put her health at risk? Again, I only have boys, so
I'm coming from teaching boys. I don;t get all this organic food- no
pesticides or hormones, but then we pump our women full of them. crazy!
have girls and boys... it is a concern to me either way... and I do let
my kids about age 12 and up listen to Pam Stensels discussions about
sex and abstinence. I recently discussed the topic with my 16, 12 and
within ear shot of my 9 yr old. I was having
a difficult time getting them to listen... finally I said, ok, maybe we
are not ready for this, however I'll have one more statement. (Mind you
we had already discussed how that is one gift you can give JUST ONCE...
etc.) And I asked them. If their friend across the street was going to
give them a piece of gum... would they want it to be the gum that
everyone else had chewed already - even if it had been cleaned, or would
they want a new piece still in the package? Think about it... with
the spread of sexually transmitted diseases etc, the gum can only get so
clean, and so can your body once you've given it away because you never
REALLY know where someone else has trod... I told them that if they
never thought about another thing I said that in the heat of the moment,
when their hormones were overtaking their brains THAT was the one thing
I wanted them to think of.
have five daughters and two sons, and use the analogy of the pan of
brownies with a little bit of dog poop in it. Would you still want to
PS- I am blogging about this w/o using names! This was a great conversation everyone..... very good. I enjoy these
their not people of equal religious conviction that use contraception?
What causes them to have a 50% plus divorce rate, too? It is not merely a
matter of religious conviction- now that we have equal treatment under
the law. While you are saying correlation is not causation, I believe
you are looking at the wrong variables. Or are you trying to say that
those of us who do not use contraception have more religious conviction?
I think there is a correlation between the use of birth control and
stat of the night-- did you know the divorce rate among couples who
lose a child is 85% and higher? Couples whose kids have chronic,
life-threatening illnesses have a divorce rate over 80%? We are really
beating the odds......... so there are many factors in divorce....
would argue that those of any religion who avoid artificial birth
control for religious reasons are more likely to also avoid divorce for
the same religious reasons. The correlation between birth control usage
and divorce rates has intensity and type
of religious belief as the correlating factor. This is true for the
religions that teach both are wrong. The belief system affects both BC
usage and divorce. The BC usage by itself does not cause the divorce.
Most married couples remain married as the divorce rate peaked at a
little under 50% a few years ago.
many times, it is the infidelity caused by the BC use that causes the divorce 0_0 ..... You know I had to say that!
is what I have been trying to say for a while now. I have finally just
started repeating: "we are supposed to bend to our faith not bend our
faith to ourselves
and now in the majority of "mainstream Protestant denominations", birth
control and abortion aren't even discussed. In the documentaries I
mentioned, the three groups who are having babies are the Orthodox Jews,
Muslims, and traditional Catholics
and fundamentalist Protestants. Yes, religion has something to do with
the choice not to contracept, but there are many who do not contracept
due to health concerns or a more "natural" approach.
if we believe that the Catholic Church is the True Faith, we have to
believe that the Teachings are what God wants us to follow. So we follow
them, out of obedience, not out of personal opinion. That's a part of
surrendering to God's Will and trusting
in His guidance. And, I personally think contraception would aid in
infidelity. Women and men are more likely to cheat if they think they
can get away with it. Contraception reduces the chance of a pregnancy. I
don't see what good contraception can do. Catholics are allowed to
space their children (even indefinitely) with NFP. And that's out of the